Chat with Hannah Seligson, author of "A Little Bit Married"
-- 16 December 2009
WS: so what are you doing in DC?
HS: i'm in dc because i can actually afford an office here
and i thought i would try to break into some political reporting
and i'm a little bit married (ALBM) and my boyfriend got a job here
WS: a little bit married?
HS: yes, it's the new romantic rite of passage for young people (born post 1980) today
the unmarried long-term relationship
WS: is that why you wrote the book?
HS: in part. the book was inspired by a personal experience.
but then it became about so much more
it's such a murky life stage
and i wanted to figure out how to wrap my mind around it
WS: how long have you been in this unmarried long-term relationship?
HS: we've been dating for about a year
WS: ah...in my mind...long-term is much longer
i know people who have dated 12 years and still unmarried!
HS: yeah, there are many permutations of ALBM
the baseline definition I came up with is a one-year monogamous relationship
but it's really more about the attributes of the relationship than the duration
WS: what are the attributes?
HS: in other words, are you doing things that probably in another era would have signaled that you are headed for the altar
intertwining in each other's families, living together, making career compromises and sacrifices for each other, plotting a future together
but then there's always this sense that there are contingencies because you are "a little bit married"
one of my favourite examples is of the couple that buys furniture together but splits the items "just in case"
WS: so why not just get married?
HS: great question
there's a movement here in the US, among certain demographics, to put off marriage
people want to establish themselves professionally before they tie the knot
and cementing a career is a long and arduous process
WS: is it a guy or gal-driven phenomenon?
HS: it's both. but let me elaborate
men and women are both pushing off marriage, but in most cases, women are still ready to get married before the guy is
they want to focus on their careers, but they also have biology to contend with
so being a little bit married has different implications for women
WS: i would imagine that guys don't even think of it in those terms -- ALBM
HS: how do you imagine they think of it?
WS: they don't?
they just think -- i'm married or not
HS: i think that's true to a certain extent
but from my research, i also found that men thought of it as batting practice for marriage
they were not, as the awful saying goes, thinking "why buy the cow when you can get milk for free"
one thing i found about men and marriage is that the time at which a man is ready to get married is very tied to his income
WS: why do people think being married hinders career advancement?
HS: well, for women, it actually does, because marriage is usually a stepping stone to children, which definitely stymies career advancement
for men, i think it's a false perception
because being married actually increases their earning potential
WS: but people can marry and not have children yet...no?
HS: that's definitely true - so i think it's about being tied to another person
the notion that you can't just pick up and move to beijing on a whim
you have to operate as a unit
WS: but you moved to DC
HS: i did and it was a tough decision
WS: why did you decide to move?
HS: ultimately, i had to decide what was really important to me. and living in the same city as my partner won out
remember that hillary clinton followed bill to arkansas, hardly the epicenter of opportunities for a recent yale school graduate
not that bill and hillary are a shining example of a marriage
WS: so what was on your mind when making the decision?
HS: i tried my best to think about different scenarios
how i would feel if we broke up
if i didn't like the city
if i felt there was a lack of career opportunities
so i did all the rational thinking
WS: but NYC & DC are not that far...what about long-d for a little while?
HS: that could have worked -- the other part of this was my own personal frustration with not being able to afford new york
dc is a better bang for the buck
but the deeper issue here is how two unmarried people try to harmonize and sync their lives
WS: so it sound to me so far that ALBM is an economic phenomenon
HS: that is certainly one read
we've seen more couples move in together as a result of the economic downturn
but it's also important to remember that ALBM is a function of the dramatic changes in the institution of marriage
people get married for very different reasons now than they used to
it used to be an economic contract
women needed a man
or it was too risky to have sex outside of marriage because of birth control
WS: or is it a function of the statistic that 1 in 2 marriages (in the US) end in divorce?
HS: and yes, the legacy of that statistic is very real
young people today don't want to repeat the mistakes their parents made
so they spend a lot of time searching out the "perfect" person
that's, of course, a generalization, but speaks to the soul mate phenomenon we see
WS: can you elaborate on the soul mate phenomenon?
HS: of course. people are looking for that perfect person, someone who has the comedic timing of jon stewart, the looks of javier bardem, and the intelligence of barack obama. it's high-stakes dating out there.
when you look at national polling in the US, most young people want to marry their "soul mate"
WS: how is soul mate defined by most?
HS: a soul mate is a factor of fun!
while i don't think there is one agreed upon definition, i think the main attributes are that it's a person with whom you never feel lonely, sad, angry, disappointed, anxious or upset around
but we all know that relationships are riddled with incompatibilities and tensions
WS: i believe in soul mates, but not your definition
HS: you do? tell me your definition
WS: i believe i have many soul mates
HS: right, i can buy into that
but what i'm talking about is a version of a person that doesn't really exist
WS: soul mates are people that you just click with...kindred spirits
HS: yeah, i like the idea of a kindred spirit
but see, the stakes today are just so high
WS: why are stakes so high?
HS: because people don't need to get married
you don't need a spouse for economic support
women can have babies on their own
WS: then shouldn't they be lower?
men feel less pressure to provide?
people can just "be"?
HS: marriage is no longer a necessity
so people look for partners to fulfill them in every way
as my friend helen said to me
"i want a boyfriend who will be my career coach, gym buddy, stand-up comic, and constant orgasm supplier
WS: LOL
HS: so another reason for the soul mate phenomenon
is that people are less connected to their communities than they were say even 40 years ago
so there is more and more pressure on a significant other to fill the roles that were once filled by an entire community
WS: what did you get out of writing ALBM?
HS: great question
i learned a lot about my generation
i think looking closely at a generation's mating and dating rituals is a view into their soul
so that was the intellectual part
and even though it was inspired by a personal experience
i was able to make it about something much bigger
which is very gratifying
to really delve into a subject and try to explore all the different facets
it gave me a real appreciation for how difficult it is to write about relationships, not to mention dole out advice
to answer your second question, yes, i am still ALBM
WS: advice is always clouded, or rather, limited by our own experience...whether lived/heard/seen/read
HS: right
i think the other thing i got out of it was feeling like i was making a contribution by putting this relationship stage on the map
so many young people drift in and out of ALBM for their 20s and into their 30s
naming something is important
WS: LOL...that's another topic altogether...naming something...it's an attempt to control/understand what we cannot control/understand
do you explain in the book your own process for answering: "How to know when it's time to walk down the aisle or out the door?"
HS: i don't really -- what i do say is the advice i'd follow for ALBM round 2
WS: thanks. loved the chat!
WS: so what are you doing in DC?
HS: i'm in dc because i can actually afford an office here
and i thought i would try to break into some political reporting
and i'm a little bit married (ALBM) and my boyfriend got a job here
WS: a little bit married?
HS: yes, it's the new romantic rite of passage for young people (born post 1980) today
the unmarried long-term relationship
WS: is that why you wrote the book?
HS: in part. the book was inspired by a personal experience.
but then it became about so much more
it's such a murky life stage
and i wanted to figure out how to wrap my mind around it
WS: how long have you been in this unmarried long-term relationship?
HS: we've been dating for about a year
WS: ah...in my mind...long-term is much longer
i know people who have dated 12 years and still unmarried!
HS: yeah, there are many permutations of ALBM
the baseline definition I came up with is a one-year monogamous relationship
but it's really more about the attributes of the relationship than the duration
WS: what are the attributes?
HS: in other words, are you doing things that probably in another era would have signaled that you are headed for the altar
intertwining in each other's families, living together, making career compromises and sacrifices for each other, plotting a future together
but then there's always this sense that there are contingencies because you are "a little bit married"
one of my favourite examples is of the couple that buys furniture together but splits the items "just in case"
WS: so why not just get married?
HS: great question
there's a movement here in the US, among certain demographics, to put off marriage
people want to establish themselves professionally before they tie the knot
and cementing a career is a long and arduous process
WS: is it a guy or gal-driven phenomenon?
HS: it's both. but let me elaborate
men and women are both pushing off marriage, but in most cases, women are still ready to get married before the guy is
they want to focus on their careers, but they also have biology to contend with
so being a little bit married has different implications for women
WS: i would imagine that guys don't even think of it in those terms -- ALBM
HS: how do you imagine they think of it?
WS: they don't?
they just think -- i'm married or not
HS: i think that's true to a certain extent
but from my research, i also found that men thought of it as batting practice for marriage
they were not, as the awful saying goes, thinking "why buy the cow when you can get milk for free"
one thing i found about men and marriage is that the time at which a man is ready to get married is very tied to his income
WS: why do people think being married hinders career advancement?
HS: well, for women, it actually does, because marriage is usually a stepping stone to children, which definitely stymies career advancement
for men, i think it's a false perception
because being married actually increases their earning potential
WS: but people can marry and not have children yet...no?
HS: that's definitely true - so i think it's about being tied to another person
the notion that you can't just pick up and move to beijing on a whim
you have to operate as a unit
WS: but you moved to DC
HS: i did and it was a tough decision
WS: why did you decide to move?
HS: ultimately, i had to decide what was really important to me. and living in the same city as my partner won out
remember that hillary clinton followed bill to arkansas, hardly the epicenter of opportunities for a recent yale school graduate
not that bill and hillary are a shining example of a marriage
WS: so what was on your mind when making the decision?
HS: i tried my best to think about different scenarios
how i would feel if we broke up
if i didn't like the city
if i felt there was a lack of career opportunities
so i did all the rational thinking
WS: but NYC & DC are not that far...what about long-d for a little while?
HS: that could have worked -- the other part of this was my own personal frustration with not being able to afford new york
dc is a better bang for the buck
but the deeper issue here is how two unmarried people try to harmonize and sync their lives
WS: so it sound to me so far that ALBM is an economic phenomenon
HS: that is certainly one read
we've seen more couples move in together as a result of the economic downturn
but it's also important to remember that ALBM is a function of the dramatic changes in the institution of marriage
people get married for very different reasons now than they used to
it used to be an economic contract
women needed a man
or it was too risky to have sex outside of marriage because of birth control
WS: or is it a function of the statistic that 1 in 2 marriages (in the US) end in divorce?
HS: and yes, the legacy of that statistic is very real
young people today don't want to repeat the mistakes their parents made
so they spend a lot of time searching out the "perfect" person
that's, of course, a generalization, but speaks to the soul mate phenomenon we see
WS: can you elaborate on the soul mate phenomenon?
HS: of course. people are looking for that perfect person, someone who has the comedic timing of jon stewart, the looks of javier bardem, and the intelligence of barack obama. it's high-stakes dating out there.
when you look at national polling in the US, most young people want to marry their "soul mate"
WS: how is soul mate defined by most?
HS: a soul mate is a factor of fun!
while i don't think there is one agreed upon definition, i think the main attributes are that it's a person with whom you never feel lonely, sad, angry, disappointed, anxious or upset around
but we all know that relationships are riddled with incompatibilities and tensions
WS: i believe in soul mates, but not your definition
HS: you do? tell me your definition
WS: i believe i have many soul mates
HS: right, i can buy into that
but what i'm talking about is a version of a person that doesn't really exist
WS: soul mates are people that you just click with...kindred spirits
HS: yeah, i like the idea of a kindred spirit
but see, the stakes today are just so high
WS: why are stakes so high?
HS: because people don't need to get married
you don't need a spouse for economic support
women can have babies on their own
WS: then shouldn't they be lower?
men feel less pressure to provide?
people can just "be"?
HS: marriage is no longer a necessity
so people look for partners to fulfill them in every way
as my friend helen said to me
"i want a boyfriend who will be my career coach, gym buddy, stand-up comic, and constant orgasm supplier
WS: LOL
HS: so another reason for the soul mate phenomenon
is that people are less connected to their communities than they were say even 40 years ago
so there is more and more pressure on a significant other to fill the roles that were once filled by an entire community
WS: what did you get out of writing ALBM?
HS: great question
i learned a lot about my generation
i think looking closely at a generation's mating and dating rituals is a view into their soul
so that was the intellectual part
and even though it was inspired by a personal experience
i was able to make it about something much bigger
which is very gratifying
to really delve into a subject and try to explore all the different facets
it gave me a real appreciation for how difficult it is to write about relationships, not to mention dole out advice
to answer your second question, yes, i am still ALBM
WS: advice is always clouded, or rather, limited by our own experience...whether lived/heard/seen/read
HS: right
i think the other thing i got out of it was feeling like i was making a contribution by putting this relationship stage on the map
so many young people drift in and out of ALBM for their 20s and into their 30s
naming something is important
WS: LOL...that's another topic altogether...naming something...it's an attempt to control/understand what we cannot control/understand
do you explain in the book your own process for answering: "How to know when it's time to walk down the aisle or out the door?"
HS: i don't really -- what i do say is the advice i'd follow for ALBM round 2
WS: thanks. loved the chat!
posted by 10000miles at 05:36
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